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NWN2 - My ideal change

 
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David T. Bilek

External


Since: Nov 15, 2006
Posts: 125



(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:26 pm
Post subject: NWN2 - My ideal change
Archived from groups: comp>sys>ibm>pc>games>rpg (more info?)

I know this is asking far too much since it would be changing a basic
game function at a fundamental levl, but I would probably keel over in
my seat from happiness if I could ever get a mod that did these 2
things:

First, prevented resting for spell memorization except in a tavern or
from a "rest" button on the travel map; Resting is supposed to be
like an overnight camp; the manual even states at one point that
"resting" is 24 hours. But that's obviously bullshit. You can rest
over and over and over almost eveywhere in the game, even in the
middle of what is supposed to be incredibly time-sensitive events.

"What's that you say? Lord Nasher is going to be killed? I need to
head over to save him right now? He has but minutes to live? Okay...
let me just sleep here overnight and I'll get right on that tomorrow.
Thanks."

This makes the game trivial. I think I can count on one hand the
times I've had a party wipe, and it's always because an idiot caster
decided to friendly fire my guys or something.

Secondly, combat needs to be true turn-based. The D&D combat rules
with regard to attacks of opportunity, initiative, area of effect
spells, and on and on are all structured around being a turn-based
system, and while the pausable real-time isn't terrible (much better
than the baldur's gate series) it has some big flaws. The biggest,
of course, is casting area of effect spells. The game tries to fudge
this by letting you set the game to "no friendly fire", but that's an
awful kludge that makes things even more trivial than they already
are. Plop a blade barrier up, move all your guys in it, and that's
all she wrote for the bad guys,

And, hell, if the kiddies today find "turn based" a real deal-killer,
you could make it toggleable like Fallout: Tactics was.

There is SO much to like about NWN2. Really. But NO modern D&D
game has ever had decent combat because the D&D 3.5 rules have been
carefully created, tweaked, modified, and tested over and over with
one goal in mind; a fun and interesting TURN BASED combat system. It
just doesn't quite translate to real time. No matter how many times
people try, it will never work. Ever. Combat in D&D should be all
about careful tactics. It shouldn't be a freakin' rugby scrum with
numbers flying all over the place such that you can't tell whats going
on.

The best D&D combat implementation on the computer? The "gold box"
series from SSI. All true turn based. Coincidence? Obviously not.

If I could get MUCH more restrictive rules about resting in
conjunction with true turn-based combat, I would be in pig heaven.
NWN2 would at that point be the last word in D&D ports to the
computer. Everything but the combat is stellar.... too bad combat is
such a big part of the game.

(Okay, the plot is stunningly linear, but that's not an engine problem
it's a game design decision.)

-David
p.p.s.... to quell objectors; Yes, I realize I could force myself
never to rest except in taverns, but without the turn-based combat it
would be too difficult to survive. The whole reason it's so easy to
rest is that combat is too unpredictable and messy because of the real
time system.

 >> Stay informed about: NWN2 - My ideal change 
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David T. Bilek

External


Since: Nov 15, 2006
Posts: 125



(Msg. 2) Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:26 pm
Post subject: NWN2 - My ideal change
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

I know this is asking far too much since it would be changing a basic
game function at a fundamental levl, but I would probably keel over in
my seat from happiness if I could ever get a mod that did these 2
things:

First, prevented resting for spell memorization except in a tavern or
from a "rest" button on the travel map; Resting is supposed to be
like an overnight camp; the manual even states at one point that
"resting" is 24 hours. But that's obviously bullshit. You can rest
over and over and over almost eveywhere in the game, even in the
middle of what is supposed to be incredibly time-sensitive events.

"What's that you say? Lord Nasher is going to be killed? I need to
head over to save him right now? He has but minutes to live? Okay...
let me just sleep here overnight and I'll get right on that tomorrow.
Thanks."

This makes the game trivial. I think I can count on one hand the
times I've had a party wipe, and it's always because an idiot caster
decided to friendly fire my guys or something.

Secondly, combat needs to be true turn-based. The D&D combat rules
with regard to attacks of opportunity, initiative, area of effect
spells, and on and on are all structured around being a turn-based
system, and while the pausable real-time isn't terrible (much better
than the baldur's gate series) it has some big flaws. The biggest,
of course, is casting area of effect spells. The game tries to fudge
this by letting you set the game to "no friendly fire", but that's an
awful kludge that makes things even more trivial than they already
are. Plop a blade barrier up, move all your guys in it, and that's
all she wrote for the bad guys,

And, hell, if the kiddies today find "turn based" a real deal-killer,
you could make it toggleable like Fallout: Tactics was.

There is SO much to like about NWN2. Really. But NO modern D&D
game has ever had decent combat because the D&D 3.5 rules have been
carefully created, tweaked, modified, and tested over and over with
one goal in mind; a fun and interesting TURN BASED combat system. It
just doesn't quite translate to real time. No matter how many times
people try, it will never work. Ever. Combat in D&D should be all
about careful tactics. It shouldn't be a freakin' rugby scrum with
numbers flying all over the place such that you can't tell whats going
on.

The best D&D combat implementation on the computer? The "gold box"
series from SSI. All true turn based. Coincidence? Obviously not.

If I could get MUCH more restrictive rules about resting in
conjunction with true turn-based combat, I would be in pig heaven.
NWN2 would at that point be the last word in D&D ports to the
computer. Everything but the combat is stellar.... too bad combat is
such a big part of the game.

(Okay, the plot is stunningly linear, but that's not an engine problem
it's a game design decision.)

-David
p.p.s.... to quell objectors; Yes, I realize I could force myself
never to rest except in taverns, but without the turn-based combat it
would be too difficult to survive. The whole reason it's so easy to
rest is that combat is too unpredictable and messy because of the real
time system.

 >> Stay informed about: NWN2 - My ideal change 
Back to top
Login to vote
David T. Bilek

External


Since: Nov 15, 2006
Posts: 125



(Msg. 3) Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:26 pm
Post subject: NWN2 - My ideal change
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

I know this is asking far too much since it would be changing a basic
game function at a fundamental levl, but I would probably keel over in
my seat from happiness if I could ever get a mod that did these 2
things:

First, prevented resting for spell memorization except in a tavern or
from a "rest" button on the travel map; Resting is supposed to be
like an overnight camp; the manual even states at one point that
"resting" is 24 hours. But that's obviously bullshit. You can rest
over and over and over almost eveywhere in the game, even in the
middle of what is supposed to be incredibly time-sensitive events.

"What's that you say? Lord Nasher is going to be killed? I need to
head over to save him right now? He has but minutes to live? Okay...
let me just sleep here overnight and I'll get right on that tomorrow.
Thanks."

This makes the game trivial. I think I can count on one hand the
times I've had a party wipe, and it's always because an idiot caster
decided to friendly fire my guys or something.

Secondly, combat needs to be true turn-based. The D&D combat rules
with regard to attacks of opportunity, initiative, area of effect
spells, and on and on are all structured around being a turn-based
system, and while the pausable real-time isn't terrible (much better
than the baldur's gate series) it has some big flaws. The biggest,
of course, is casting area of effect spells. The game tries to fudge
this by letting you set the game to "no friendly fire", but that's an
awful kludge that makes things even more trivial than they already
are. Plop a blade barrier up, move all your guys in it, and that's
all she wrote for the bad guys,

And, hell, if the kiddies today find "turn based" a real deal-killer,
you could make it toggleable like Fallout: Tactics was.

There is SO much to like about NWN2. Really. But NO modern D&D
game has ever had decent combat because the D&D 3.5 rules have been
carefully created, tweaked, modified, and tested over and over with
one goal in mind; a fun and interesting TURN BASED combat system. It
just doesn't quite translate to real time. No matter how many times
people try, it will never work. Ever. Combat in D&D should be all
about careful tactics. It shouldn't be a freakin' rugby scrum with
numbers flying all over the place such that you can't tell whats going
on.

The best D&D combat implementation on the computer? The "gold box"
series from SSI. All true turn based. Coincidence? Obviously not.

If I could get MUCH more restrictive rules about resting in
conjunction with true turn-based combat, I would be in pig heaven.
NWN2 would at that point be the last word in D&D ports to the
computer. Everything but the combat is stellar.... too bad combat is
such a big part of the game.

(Okay, the plot is stunningly linear, but that's not an engine problem
it's a game design decision.)

-David
p.p.s.... to quell objectors; Yes, I realize I could force myself
never to rest except in taverns, but without the turn-based combat it
would be too difficult to survive. The whole reason it's so easy to
rest is that combat is too unpredictable and messy because of the real
time system.
 >> Stay informed about: NWN2 - My ideal change 
Back to top
Login to vote
David T. Bilek

External


Since: Nov 15, 2006
Posts: 125



(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:26 pm
Post subject: NWN2 - My ideal change
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

I know this is asking far too much since it would be changing a basic
game function at a fundamental levl, but I would probably keel over in
my seat from happiness if I could ever get a mod that did these 2
things:

First, prevented resting for spell memorization except in a tavern or
from a "rest" button on the travel map; Resting is supposed to be
like an overnight camp; the manual even states at one point that
"resting" is 24 hours. But that's obviously bullshit. You can rest
over and over and over almost eveywhere in the game, even in the
middle of what is supposed to be incredibly time-sensitive events.

"What's that you say? Lord Nasher is going to be killed? I need to
head over to save him right now? He has but minutes to live? Okay...
let me just sleep here overnight and I'll get right on that tomorrow.
Thanks."

This makes the game trivial. I think I can count on one hand the
times I've had a party wipe, and it's always because an idiot caster
decided to friendly fire my guys or something.

Secondly, combat needs to be true turn-based. The D&D combat rules
with regard to attacks of opportunity, initiative, area of effect
spells, and on and on are all structured around being a turn-based
system, and while the pausable real-time isn't terrible (much better
than the baldur's gate series) it has some big flaws. The biggest,
of course, is casting area of effect spells. The game tries to fudge
this by letting you set the game to "no friendly fire", but that's an
awful kludge that makes things even more trivial than they already
are. Plop a blade barrier up, move all your guys in it, and that's
all she wrote for the bad guys,

And, hell, if the kiddies today find "turn based" a real deal-killer,
you could make it toggleable like Fallout: Tactics was.

There is SO much to like about NWN2. Really. But NO modern D&D
game has ever had decent combat because the D&D 3.5 rules have been
carefully created, tweaked, modified, and tested over and over with
one goal in mind; a fun and interesting TURN BASED combat system. It
just doesn't quite translate to real time. No matter how many times
people try, it will never work. Ever. Combat in D&D should be all
about careful tactics. It shouldn't be a freakin' rugby scrum with
numbers flying all over the place such that you can't tell whats going
on.

The best D&D combat implementation on the computer? The "gold box"
series from SSI. All true turn based. Coincidence? Obviously not.

If I could get MUCH more restrictive rules about resting in
conjunction with true turn-based combat, I would be in pig heaven.
NWN2 would at that point be the last word in D&D ports to the
computer. Everything but the combat is stellar.... too bad combat is
such a big part of the game.

(Okay, the plot is stunningly linear, but that's not an engine problem
it's a game design decision.)

-David
p.p.s.... to quell objectors; Yes, I realize I could force myself
never to rest except in taverns, but without the turn-based combat it
would be too difficult to survive. The whole reason it's so easy to
rest is that combat is too unpredictable and messy because of the real
time system.
 >> Stay informed about: NWN2 - My ideal change 
Back to top
Login to vote
David T. Bilek

External


Since: Nov 15, 2006
Posts: 125



(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:26 pm
Post subject: NWN2 - My ideal change
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

I know this is asking far too much since it would be changing a basic
game function at a fundamental levl, but I would probably keel over in
my seat from happiness if I could ever get a mod that did these 2
things:

First, prevented resting for spell memorization except in a tavern or
from a "rest" button on the travel map; Resting is supposed to be
like an overnight camp; the manual even states at one point that
"resting" is 24 hours. But that's obviously bullshit. You can rest
over and over and over almost eveywhere in the game, even in the
middle of what is supposed to be incredibly time-sensitive events.

"What's that you say? Lord Nasher is going to be killed? I need to
head over to save him right now? He has but minutes to live? Okay...
let me just sleep here overnight and I'll get right on that tomorrow.
Thanks."

This makes the game trivial. I think I can count on one hand the
times I've had a party wipe, and it's always because an idiot caster
decided to friendly fire my guys or something.

Secondly, combat needs to be true turn-based. The D&D combat rules
with regard to attacks of opportunity, initiative, area of effect
spells, and on and on are all structured around being a turn-based
system, and while the pausable real-time isn't terrible (much better
than the baldur's gate series) it has some big flaws. The biggest,
of course, is casting area of effect spells. The game tries to fudge
this by letting you set the game to "no friendly fire", but that's an
awful kludge that makes things even more trivial than they already
are. Plop a blade barrier up, move all your guys in it, and that's
all she wrote for the bad guys,

And, hell, if the kiddies today find "turn based" a real deal-killer,
you could make it toggleable like Fallout: Tactics was.

There is SO much to like about NWN2. Really. But NO modern D&D
game has ever had decent combat because the D&D 3.5 rules have been
carefully created, tweaked, modified, and tested over and over with
one goal in mind; a fun and interesting TURN BASED combat system. It
just doesn't quite translate to real time. No matter how many times
people try, it will never work. Ever. Combat in D&D should be all
about careful tactics. It shouldn't be a freakin' rugby scrum with
numbers flying all over the place such that you can't tell whats going
on.

The best D&D combat implementation on the computer? The "gold box"
series from SSI. All true turn based. Coincidence? Obviously not.

If I could get MUCH more restrictive rules about resting in
conjunction with true turn-based combat, I would be in pig heaven.
NWN2 would at that point be the last word in D&D ports to the
computer. Everything but the combat is stellar.... too bad combat is
such a big part of the game.

(Okay, the plot is stunningly linear, but that's not an engine problem
it's a game design decision.)

-David
p.p.s.... to quell objectors; Yes, I realize I could force myself
never to rest except in taverns, but without the turn-based combat it
would be too difficult to survive. The whole reason it's so easy to
rest is that combat is too unpredictable and messy because of the real
time system.
 >> Stay informed about: NWN2 - My ideal change 
Back to top
Login to vote
David T. Bilek

External


Since: Nov 15, 2006
Posts: 125



(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:26 pm
Post subject: NWN2 - My ideal change
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

I know this is asking far too much since it would be changing a basic
game function at a fundamental levl, but I would probably keel over in
my seat from happiness if I could ever get a mod that did these 2
things:

First, prevented resting for spell memorization except in a tavern or
from a "rest" button on the travel map; Resting is supposed to be
like an overnight camp; the manual even states at one point that
"resting" is 24 hours. But that's obviously bullshit. You can rest
over and over and over almost eveywhere in the game, even in the
middle of what is supposed to be incredibly time-sensitive events.

"What's that you say? Lord Nasher is going to be killed? I need to
head over to save him right now? He has but minutes to live? Okay...
let me just sleep here overnight and I'll get right on that tomorrow.
Thanks."

This makes the game trivial. I think I can count on one hand the
times I've had a party wipe, and it's always because an idiot caster
decided to friendly fire my guys or something.

Secondly, combat needs to be true turn-based. The D&D combat rules
with regard to attacks of opportunity, initiative, area of effect
spells, and on and on are all structured around being a turn-based
system, and while the pausable real-time isn't terrible (much better
than the baldur's gate series) it has some big flaws. The biggest,
of course, is casting area of effect spells. The game tries to fudge
this by letting you set the game to "no friendly fire", but that's an
awful kludge that makes things even more trivial than they already
are. Plop a blade barrier up, move all your guys in it, and that's
all she wrote for the bad guys,

And, hell, if the kiddies today find "turn based" a real deal-killer,
you could make it toggleable like Fallout: Tactics was.

There is SO much to like about NWN2. Really. But NO modern D&D
game has ever had decent combat because the D&D 3.5 rules have been
carefully created, tweaked, modified, and tested over and over with
one goal in mind; a fun and interesting TURN BASED combat system. It
just doesn't quite translate to real time. No matter how many times
people try, it will never work. Ever. Combat in D&D should be all
about careful tactics. It shouldn't be a freakin' rugby scrum with
numbers flying all over the place such that you can't tell whats going
on.

The best D&D combat implementation on the computer? The "gold box"
series from SSI. All true turn based. Coincidence? Obviously not.

If I could get MUCH more restrictive rules about resting in
conjunction with true turn-based combat, I would be in pig heaven.
NWN2 would at that point be the last word in D&D ports to the
computer. Everything but the combat is stellar.... too bad combat is
such a big part of the game.

(Okay, the plot is stunningly linear, but that's not an engine problem
it's a game design decision.)

-David
p.p.s.... to quell objectors; Yes, I realize I could force myself
never to rest except in taverns, but without the turn-based combat it
would be too difficult to survive. The whole reason it's so easy to
rest is that combat is too unpredictable and messy because of the real
time system.
 >> Stay informed about: NWN2 - My ideal change 
Back to top
Login to vote
David T. Bilek

External


Since: Nov 15, 2006
Posts: 125



(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:26 pm
Post subject: NWN2 - My ideal change
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

I know this is asking far too much since it would be changing a basic
game function at a fundamental levl, but I would probably keel over in
my seat from happiness if I could ever get a mod that did these 2
things:

First, prevented resting for spell memorization except in a tavern or
from a "rest" button on the travel map; Resting is supposed to be
like an overnight camp; the manual even states at one point that
"resting" is 24 hours. But that's obviously bullshit. You can rest
over and over and over almost eveywhere in the game, even in the
middle of what is supposed to be incredibly time-sensitive events.

"What's that you say? Lord Nasher is going to be killed? I need to
head over to save him right now? He has but minutes to live? Okay...
let me just sleep here overnight and I'll get right on that tomorrow.
Thanks."

This makes the game trivial. I think I can count on one hand the
times I've had a party wipe, and it's always because an idiot caster
decided to friendly fire my guys or something.

Secondly, combat needs to be true turn-based. The D&D combat rules
with regard to attacks of opportunity, initiative, area of effect
spells, and on and on are all structured around being a turn-based
system, and while the pausable real-time isn't terrible (much better
than the baldur's gate series) it has some big flaws. The biggest,
of course, is casting area of effect spells. The game tries to fudge
this by letting you set the game to "no friendly fire", but that's an
awful kludge that makes things even more trivial than they already
are. Plop a blade barrier up, move all your guys in it, and that's
all she wrote for the bad guys,

And, hell, if the kiddies today find "turn based" a real deal-killer,
you could make it toggleable like Fallout: Tactics was.

There is SO much to like about NWN2. Really. But NO modern D&D
game has ever had decent combat because the D&D 3.5 rules have been
carefully created, tweaked, modified, and tested over and over with
one goal in mind; a fun and interesting TURN BASED combat system. It
just doesn't quite translate to real time. No matter how many times
people try, it will never work. Ever. Combat in D&D should be all
about careful tactics. It shouldn't be a freakin' rugby scrum with
numbers flying all over the place such that you can't tell whats going
on.

The best D&D combat implementation on the computer? The "gold box"
series from SSI. All true turn based. Coincidence? Obviously not.

If I could get MUCH more restrictive rules about resting in
conjunction with true turn-based combat, I would be in pig heaven.
NWN2 would at that point be the last word in D&D ports to the
computer. Everything but the combat is stellar.... too bad combat is
such a big part of the game.

(Okay, the plot is stunningly linear, but that's not an engine problem
it's a game design decision.)

-David
p.p.s.... to quell objectors; Yes, I realize I could force myself
never to rest except in taverns, but without the turn-based combat it
would be too difficult to survive. The whole reason it's so easy to
rest is that combat is too unpredictable and messy because of the real
time system.
 >> Stay informed about: NWN2 - My ideal change 
Back to top
Login to vote
David T. Bilek

External


Since: Nov 15, 2006
Posts: 125



(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:26 pm
Post subject: NWN2 - My ideal change
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

I know this is asking far too much since it would be changing a basic
game function at a fundamental levl, but I would probably keel over in
my seat from happiness if I could ever get a mod that did these 2
things:

First, prevented resting for spell memorization except in a tavern or
from a "rest" button on the travel map; Resting is supposed to be
like an overnight camp; the manual even states at one point that
"resting" is 24 hours. But that's obviously bullshit. You can rest
over and over and over almost eveywhere in the game, even in the
middle of what is supposed to be incredibly time-sensitive events.

"What's that you say? Lord Nasher is going to be killed? I need to
head over to save him right now? He has but minutes to live? Okay...
let me just sleep here overnight and I'll get right on that tomorrow.
Thanks."

This makes the game trivial. I think I can count on one hand the
times I've had a party wipe, and it's always because an idiot caster
decided to friendly fire my guys or something.

Secondly, combat needs to be true turn-based. The D&D combat rules
with regard to attacks of opportunity, initiative, area of effect
spells, and on and on are all structured around being a turn-based
system, and while the pausable real-time isn't terrible (much better
than the baldur's gate series) it has some big flaws. The biggest,
of course, is casting area of effect spells. The game tries to fudge
this by letting you set the game to "no friendly fire", but that's an
awful kludge that makes things even more trivial than they already
are. Plop a blade barrier up, move all your guys in it, and that's
all she wrote for the bad guys,

And, hell, if the kiddies today find "turn based" a real deal-killer,
you could make it toggleable like Fallout: Tactics was.

There is SO much to like about NWN2. Really. But NO modern D&D
game has ever had decent combat because the D&D 3.5 rules have been
carefully created, tweaked, modified, and tested over and over with
one goal in mind; a fun and interesting TURN BASED combat system. It
just doesn't quite translate to real time. No matter how many times
people try, it will never work. Ever. Combat in D&D should be all
about careful tactics. It shouldn't be a freakin' rugby scrum with
numbers flying all over the place such that you can't tell whats going
on.

The best D&D combat implementation on the computer? The "gold box"
series from SSI. All true turn based. Coincidence? Obviously not.

If I could get MUCH more restrictive rules about resting in
conjunction with true turn-based combat, I would be in pig heaven.
NWN2 would at that point be the last word in D&D ports to the
computer. Everything but the combat is stellar.... too bad combat is
such a big part of the game.

(Okay, the plot is stunningly linear, but that's not an engine problem
it's a game design decision.)

-David
p.p.s.... to quell objectors; Yes, I realize I could force myself
never to rest except in taverns, but without the turn-based combat it
would be too difficult to survive. The whole reason it's so easy to
rest is that combat is too unpredictable and messy because of the real
time system.
 >> Stay informed about: NWN2 - My ideal change 
Back to top
Login to vote
David T. Bilek

External


Since: Nov 15, 2006
Posts: 125



(Msg. 9) Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:26 pm
Post subject: NWN2 - My ideal change
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

I know this is asking far too much since it would be changing a basic
game function at a fundamental levl, but I would probably keel over in
my seat from happiness if I could ever get a mod that did these 2
things:

First, prevented resting for spell memorization except in a tavern or
from a "rest" button on the travel map; Resting is supposed to be
like an overnight camp; the manual even states at one point that
"resting" is 24 hours. But that's obviously bullshit. You can rest
over and over and over almost eveywhere in the game, even in the
middle of what is supposed to be incredibly time-sensitive events.

"What's that you say? Lord Nasher is going to be killed? I need to
head over to save him right now? He has but minutes to live? Okay...
let me just sleep here overnight and I'll get right on that tomorrow.
Thanks."

This makes the game trivial. I think I can count on one hand the
times I've had a party wipe, and it's always because an idiot caster
decided to friendly fire my guys or something.

Secondly, combat needs to be true turn-based. The D&D combat rules
with regard to attacks of opportunity, initiative, area of effect
spells, and on and on are all structured around being a turn-based
system, and while the pausable real-time isn't terrible (much better
than the baldur's gate series) it has some big flaws. The biggest,
of course, is casting area of effect spells. The game tries to fudge
this by letting you set the game to "no friendly fire", but that's an
awful kludge that makes things even more trivial than they already
are. Plop a blade barrier up, move all your guys in it, and that's
all she wrote for the bad guys,

And, hell, if the kiddies today find "turn based" a real deal-killer,
you could make it toggleable like Fallout: Tactics was.

There is SO much to like about NWN2. Really. But NO modern D&D
game has ever had decent combat because the D&D 3.5 rules have been
carefully created, tweaked, modified, and tested over and over with
one goal in mind; a fun and interesting TURN BASED combat system. It
just doesn't quite translate to real time. No matter how many times
people try, it will never work. Ever. Combat in D&D should be all
about careful tactics. It shouldn't be a freakin' rugby scrum with
numbers flying all over the place such that you can't tell whats going
on.

The best D&D combat implementation on the computer? The "gold box"
series from SSI. All true turn based. Coincidence? Obviously not.

If I could get MUCH more restrictive rules about resting in
conjunction with true turn-based combat, I would be in pig heaven.
NWN2 would at that point be the last word in D&D ports to the
computer. Everything but the combat is stellar.... too bad combat is
such a big part of the game.

(Okay, the plot is stunningly linear, but that's not an engine problem
it's a game design decision.)

-David
p.p.s.... to quell objectors; Yes, I realize I could force myself
never to rest except in taverns, but without the turn-based combat it
would be too difficult to survive. The whole reason it's so easy to
rest is that combat is too unpredictable and messy because of the real
time system.
 >> Stay informed about: NWN2 - My ideal change 
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David T. Bilek

External


Since: Nov 15, 2006
Posts: 125



(Msg. 10) Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:26 pm
Post subject: NWN2 - My ideal change
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

I know this is asking far too much since it would be changing a basic
game function at a fundamental levl, but I would probably keel over in
my seat from happiness if I could ever get a mod that did these 2
things:

First, prevented resting for spell memorization except in a tavern or
from a "rest" button on the travel map; Resting is supposed to be
like an overnight camp; the manual even states at one point that
"resting" is 24 hours. But that's obviously bullshit. You can rest
over and over and over almost eveywhere in the game, even in the
middle of what is supposed to be incredibly time-sensitive events.

"What's that you say? Lord Nasher is going to be killed? I need to
head over to save him right now? He has but minutes to live? Okay...
let me just sleep here overnight and I'll get right on that tomorrow.
Thanks."

This makes the game trivial. I think I can count on one hand the
times I've had a party wipe, and it's always because an idiot caster
decided to friendly fire my guys or something.

Secondly, combat needs to be true turn-based. The D&D combat rules
with regard to attacks of opportunity, initiative, area of effect
spells, and on and on are all structured around being a turn-based
system, and while the pausable real-time isn't terrible (much better
than the baldur's gate series) it has some big flaws. The biggest,
of course, is casting area of effect spells. The game tries to fudge
this by letting you set the game to "no friendly fire", but that's an
awful kludge that makes things even more trivial than they already
are. Plop a blade barrier up, move all your guys in it, and that's
all she wrote for the bad guys,

And, hell, if the kiddies today find "turn based" a real deal-killer,
you could make it toggleable like Fallout: Tactics was.

There is SO much to like about NWN2. Really. But NO modern D&D
game has ever had decent combat because the D&D 3.5 rules have been
carefully created, tweaked, modified, and tested over and over with
one goal in mind; a fun and interesting TURN BASED combat system. It
just doesn't quite translate to real time. No matter how many times
people try, it will never work. Ever. Combat in D&D should be all
about careful tactics. It shouldn't be a freakin' rugby scrum with
numbers flying all over the place such that you can't tell whats going
on.

The best D&D combat implementation on the computer? The "gold box"
series from SSI. All true turn based. Coincidence? Obviously not.

If I could get MUCH more restrictive rules about resting in
conjunction with true turn-based combat, I would be in pig heaven.
NWN2 would at that point be the last word in D&D ports to the
computer. Everything but the combat is stellar.... too bad combat is
such a big part of the game.

(Okay, the plot is stunningly linear, but that's not an engine problem
it's a game design decision.)

-David
p.p.s.... to quell objectors; Yes, I realize I could force myself
never to rest except in taverns, but without the turn-based combat it
would be too difficult to survive. The whole reason it's so easy to
rest is that combat is too unpredictable and messy because of the real
time system.
 >> Stay informed about: NWN2 - My ideal change 
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David T. Bilek

External


Since: Nov 15, 2006
Posts: 125



(Msg. 11) Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:26 pm
Post subject: NWN2 - My ideal change
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

I know this is asking far too much since it would be changing a basic
game function at a fundamental levl, but I would probably keel over in
my seat from happiness if I could ever get a mod that did these 2
things:

First, prevented resting for spell memorization except in a tavern or
from a "rest" button on the travel map; Resting is supposed to be
like an overnight camp; the manual even states at one point that
"resting" is 24 hours. But that's obviously bullshit. You can rest
over and over and over almost eveywhere in the game, even in the
middle of what is supposed to be incredibly time-sensitive events.

"What's that you say? Lord Nasher is going to be killed? I need to
head over to save him right now? He has but minutes to live? Okay...
let me just sleep here overnight and I'll get right on that tomorrow.
Thanks."

This makes the game trivial. I think I can count on one hand the
times I've had a party wipe, and it's always because an idiot caster
decided to friendly fire my guys or something.

Secondly, combat needs to be true turn-based. The D&D combat rules
with regard to attacks of opportunity, initiative, area of effect
spells, and on and on are all structured around being a turn-based
system, and while the pausable real-time isn't terrible (much better
than the baldur's gate series) it has some big flaws. The biggest,
of course, is casting area of effect spells. The game tries to fudge
this by letting you set the game to "no friendly fire", but that's an
awful kludge that makes things even more trivial than they already
are. Plop a blade barrier up, move all your guys in it, and that's
all she wrote for the bad guys,

And, hell, if the kiddies today find "turn based" a real deal-killer,
you could make it toggleable like Fallout: Tactics was.

There is SO much to like about NWN2. Really. But NO modern D&D
game has ever had decent combat because the D&D 3.5 rules have been
carefully created, tweaked, modified, and tested over and over with
one goal in mind; a fun and interesting TURN BASED combat system. It
just doesn't quite translate to real time. No matter how many times
people try, it will never work. Ever. Combat in D&D should be all
about careful tactics. It shouldn't be a freakin' rugby scrum with
numbers flying all over the place such that you can't tell whats going
on.

The best D&D combat implementation on the computer? The "gold box"
series from SSI. All true turn based. Coincidence? Obviously not.

If I could get MUCH more restrictive rules about resting in
conjunction with true turn-based combat, I would be in pig heaven.
NWN2 would at that point be the last word in D&D ports to the
computer. Everything but the combat is stellar.... too bad combat is
such a big part of the game.

(Okay, the plot is stunningly linear, but that's not an engine problem
it's a game design decision.)

-David
p.p.s.... to quell objectors; Yes, I realize I could force myself
never to rest except in taverns, but without the turn-based combat it
would be too difficult to survive. The whole reason it's so easy to
rest is that combat is too unpredictable and messy because of the real
time system.
 >> Stay informed about: NWN2 - My ideal change 
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Login to vote
David T. Bilek

External


Since: Nov 15, 2006
Posts: 125



(Msg. 12) Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:26 pm
Post subject: NWN2 - My ideal change
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

I know this is asking far too much since it would be changing a basic
game function at a fundamental levl, but I would probably keel over in
my seat from happiness if I could ever get a mod that did these 2
things:

First, prevented resting for spell memorization except in a tavern or
from a "rest" button on the travel map; Resting is supposed to be
like an overnight camp; the manual even states at one point that
"resting" is 24 hours. But that's obviously bullshit. You can rest
over and over and over almost eveywhere in the game, even in the
middle of what is supposed to be incredibly time-sensitive events.

"What's that you say? Lord Nasher is going to be killed? I need to
head over to save him right now? He has but minutes to live? Okay...
let me just sleep here overnight and I'll get right on that tomorrow.
Thanks."

This makes the game trivial. I think I can count on one hand the
times I've had a party wipe, and it's always because an idiot caster
decided to friendly fire my guys or something.

Secondly, combat needs to be true turn-based. The D&D combat rules
with regard to attacks of opportunity, initiative, area of effect
spells, and on and on are all structured around being a turn-based
system, and while the pausable real-time isn't terrible (much better
than the baldur's gate series) it has some big flaws. The biggest,
of course, is casting area of effect spells. The game tries to fudge
this by letting you set the game to "no friendly fire", but that's an
awful kludge that makes things even more trivial than they already
are. Plop a blade barrier up, move all your guys in it, and that's
all she wrote for the bad guys,

And, hell, if the kiddies today find "turn based" a real deal-killer,
you could make it toggleable like Fallout: Tactics was.

There is SO much to like about NWN2. Really. But NO modern D&D
game has ever had decent combat because the D&D 3.5 rules have been
carefully created, tweaked, modified, and tested over and over with
one goal in mind; a fun and interesting TURN BASED combat system. It
just doesn't quite translate to real time. No matter how many times
people try, it will never work. Ever. Combat in D&D should be all
about careful tactics. It shouldn't be a freakin' rugby scrum with
numbers flying all over the place such that you can't tell whats going
on.

The best D&D combat implementation on the computer? The "gold box"
series from SSI. All true turn based. Coincidence? Obviously not.

If I could get MUCH more restrictive rules about resting in
conjunction with true turn-based combat, I would be in pig heaven.
NWN2 would at that point be the last word in D&D ports to the
computer. Everything but the combat is stellar.... too bad combat is
such a big part of the game.

(Okay, the plot is stunningly linear, but that's not an engine problem
it's a game design decision.)

-David
p.p.s.... to quell objectors; Yes, I realize I could force myself
never to rest except in taverns, but without the turn-based combat it
would be too difficult to survive. The whole reason it's so easy to
rest is that combat is too unpredictable and messy because of the real
time system.
 >> Stay informed about: NWN2 - My ideal change 
Back to top
Login to vote
David T. Bilek

External


Since: Nov 15, 2006
Posts: 125



(Msg. 13) Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:26 pm
Post subject: NWN2 - My ideal change
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

I know this is asking far too much since it would be changing a basic
game function at a fundamental levl, but I would probably keel over in
my seat from happiness if I could ever get a mod that did these 2
things:

First, prevented resting for spell memorization except in a tavern or
from a "rest" button on the travel map; Resting is supposed to be
like an overnight camp; the manual even states at one point that
"resting" is 24 hours. But that's obviously bullshit. You can rest
over and over and over almost eveywhere in the game, even in the
middle of what is supposed to be incredibly time-sensitive events.

"What's that you say? Lord Nasher is going to be killed? I need to
head over to save him right now? He has but minutes to live? Okay...
let me just sleep here overnight and I'll get right on that tomorrow.
Thanks."

This makes the game trivial. I think I can count on one hand the
times I've had a party wipe, and it's always because an idiot caster
decided to friendly fire my guys or something.

Secondly, combat needs to be true turn-based. The D&D combat rules
with regard to attacks of opportunity, initiative, area of effect
spells, and on and on are all structured around being a turn-based
system, and while the pausable real-time isn't terrible (much better
than the baldur's gate series) it has some big flaws. The biggest,
of course, is casting area of effect spells. The game tries to fudge
this by letting you set the game to "no friendly fire", but that's an
awful kludge that makes things even more trivial than they already
are. Plop a blade barrier up, move all your guys in it, and that's
all she wrote for the bad guys,

And, hell, if the kiddies today find "turn based" a real deal-killer,
you could make it toggleable like Fallout: Tactics was.

There is SO much to like about NWN2. Really. But NO modern D&D
game has ever had decent combat because the D&D 3.5 rules have been
carefully created, tweaked, modified, and tested over and over with
one goal in mind; a fun and interesting TURN BASED combat system. It
just doesn't quite translate to real time. No matter how many times
people try, it will never work. Ever. Combat in D&D should be all
about careful tactics. It shouldn't be a freakin' rugby scrum with
numbers flying all over the place such that you can't tell whats going
on.

The best D&D combat implementation on the computer? The "gold box"
series from SSI. All true turn based. Coincidence? Obviously not.

If I could get MUCH more restrictive rules about resting in
conjunction with true turn-based combat, I would be in pig heaven.
NWN2 would at that point be the last word in D&D ports to the
computer. Everything but the combat is stellar.... too bad combat is
such a big part of the game.

(Okay, the plot is stunningly linear, but that's not an engine problem
it's a game design decision.)

-David
p.p.s.... to quell objectors; Yes, I realize I could force myself
never to rest except in taverns, but without the turn-based combat it
would be too difficult to survive. The whole reason it's so easy to
rest is that combat is too unpredictable and messy because of the real
time system.
 >> Stay informed about: NWN2 - My ideal change 
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Login to vote
David T. Bilek

External


Since: Nov 15, 2006
Posts: 125



(Msg. 14) Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:26 pm
Post subject: NWN2 - My ideal change
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

I know this is asking far too much since it would be changing a basic
game function at a fundamental levl, but I would probably keel over in
my seat from happiness if I could ever get a mod that did these 2
things:

First, prevented resting for spell memorization except in a tavern or
from a "rest" button on the travel map; Resting is supposed to be
like an overnight camp; the manual even states at one point that
"resting" is 24 hours. But that's obviously bullshit. You can rest
over and over and over almost eveywhere in the game, even in the
middle of what is supposed to be incredibly time-sensitive events.

"What's that you say? Lord Nasher is going to be killed? I need to
head over to save him right now? He has but minutes to live? Okay...
let me just sleep here overnight and I'll get right on that tomorrow.
Thanks."

This makes the game trivial. I think I can count on one hand the
times I've had a party wipe, and it's always because an idiot caster
decided to friendly fire my guys or something.

Secondly, combat needs to be true turn-based. The D&D combat rules
with regard to attacks of opportunity, initiative, area of effect
spells, and on and on are all structured around being a turn-based
system, and while the pausable real-time isn't terrible (much better
than the baldur's gate series) it has some big flaws. The biggest,
of course, is casting area of effect spells. The game tries to fudge
this by letting you set the game to "no friendly fire", but that's an
awful kludge that makes things even more trivial than they already
are. Plop a blade barrier up, move all your guys in it, and that's
all she wrote for the bad guys,

And, hell, if the kiddies today find "turn based" a real deal-killer,
you could make it toggleable like Fallout: Tactics was.

There is SO much to like about NWN2. Really. But NO modern D&D
game has ever had decent combat because the D&D 3.5 rules have been
carefully created, tweaked, modified, and tested over and over with
one goal in mind; a fun and interesting TURN BASED combat system. It
just doesn't quite translate to real time. No matter how many times
people try, it will never work. Ever. Combat in D&D should be all
about careful tactics. It shouldn't be a freakin' rugby scrum with
numbers flying all over the place such that you can't tell whats going
on.

The best D&D combat implementation on the computer? The "gold box"
series from SSI. All true turn based. Coincidence? Obviously not.

If I could get MUCH more restrictive rules about resting in
conjunction with true turn-based combat, I would be in pig heaven.
NWN2 would at that point be the last word in D&D ports to the
computer. Everything but the combat is stellar.... too bad combat is
such a big part of the game.

(Okay, the plot is stunningly linear, but that's not an engine problem
it's a game design decision.)

-David
p.p.s.... to quell objectors; Yes, I realize I could force myself
never to rest except in taverns, but without the turn-based combat it
would be too difficult to survive. The whole reason it's so easy to
rest is that combat is too unpredictable and messy because of the real
time system.
 >> Stay informed about: NWN2 - My ideal change 
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Wolfing

External


Since: Sep 26, 2005
Posts: 680



(Msg. 15) Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:32 pm
Post subject: Re: NWN2 - My ideal change [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

jwb wrote:
> "David T. Bilek" wrote in message
>
>
> > If I could get MUCH more restrictive rules about resting in
> > conjunction with true turn-based combat, I would be in pig heaven.
> > NWN2 would at that point be the last word in D&D ports to the
> > computer. Everything but the combat is stellar.... too bad combat is
> > such a big part of the game.
>
> You just pointed why the resting is needed. You cannot survive without it,
> because combat is such a big part of the game. In fact, so far, I'm finding
> the game is essentially one combat after another, with a few amusing cut
> scenes.
>
> You can't get through most areas without "battle / rest / battle / rest"
No but really they should have done those changes in the campaign. I
do agree it's ridiculous how you can rest whenever and wherever you
want. If at least you got something happening while you rested, like a
chance of a thief stealing your stuff, or some big dudes attacking your
party, etc. then you would be more reluctant to rest after every fight.

Another thing I don' t like, like I mentioned in another thread, it's
the lack of 'death penalty'. In D&D when someone dies, it'll cost a
lot of money to raise the person. Here it's like people taking a nap
when they die. Fights are really trivial, hell I don't even bother
buffing my party or casting any special spells. Just go, hack and
slash, if people start dying, run back to entrace, 5 second rest, and
come back to finish the mobs.
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